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User talk:Eozhik

2013-11-01T16:36:45Z

Eozhik: /* Welcome! */

==Welcome!==

Hello, Eozhik, and welcome to the [[Mises Wiki:About|Mises Wiki]]! Thanks for signing up – we're glad to have you! If you need help [[Help:Getting started|getting started]], take a look at our [[Help:Contents|help pages]].

Community discussion takes place at the [[Mises Wiki:Commons|MisesWiki Commons]], so feel free to post any questions you might have there or on my talk page. Please sign your messages on talk and discussion pages using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. Again, welcome! [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 10:55, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:Yeah, I never had much of an understanding of dialectics, and unfortunately I don't speak Russian. [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 13:47, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:: Nathan, nobody have much of understanding of dialectics, because this is a kind of sophisticated charlatanianism (see for example, Popper's paper: http://www.vordenker.de/ggphilosophy/popper_what-is-dialectic.pdf). However, at Soviet time marxists used it as a main instrument for forcing out logic, which they called "old-fashioned logic". I expected that there were investigations on this topic, but I can't find them. :( [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 13:58, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:::I see some stuff about dialectics [http://mises.org/books/socialism/preface_second_german_edition.aspx here], [http://mises.org/th/chapter7.asp here], etc. Did you do a keyword search of mises.org? Mises did address the topic. But I never spent much time studying it, partly because people hardly ever bring the topic up in debate. [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 18:54, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:::: Nathan, thank you very much! No, I didn't try to find this at mises.org, I don't know why. I am reading this, thank you again! [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 09:56, 1 November 2013 (MSK)
:::: Nathan, I've just read what you suggested. You know, I am afraid, it is not enough for persuading people in Russian Wikipedia that the attempts to replace logic by dialectics in the USSR were connected with the idea of polilogism... Moreover, I faced difficulties in explaining that Marx and Engels were keen of this idea. The counter-evidence was as follows: "since you can't give a quotation where Mises says that what Engels told about dialectics was a result of his polylogism, then you can't mention Engels in this context". I had a hope that maybe somebody else in the Austrian school wrote something on this topic... Do you know? [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 20:13, 1 November 2013 (MSK)

User talk:Eozhik

2013-11-01T16:13:05Z

Eozhik:

==Welcome!==

Hello, Eozhik, and welcome to the [[Mises Wiki:About|Mises Wiki]]! Thanks for signing up – we're glad to have you! If you need help [[Help:Getting started|getting started]], take a look at our [[Help:Contents|help pages]].

Community discussion takes place at the [[Mises Wiki:Commons|MisesWiki Commons]], so feel free to post any questions you might have there or on my talk page. Please sign your messages on talk and discussion pages using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. Again, welcome! [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 10:55, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:Yeah, I never had much of an understanding of dialectics, and unfortunately I don't speak Russian. [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 13:47, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:: Nathan, nobody have much of understanding of dialectics, because this is a kind of sophisticated charlatanianism (see for example, Popper's paper: http://www.vordenker.de/ggphilosophy/popper_what-is-dialectic.pdf). However, at Soviet time marxists used it as a main instrument for forcing out logic, which they called "old-fashioned logic". I expected that there were investigations on this topic, but I can't find them. :( [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 13:58, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:::I see some stuff about dialectics [http://mises.org/books/socialism/preface_second_german_edition.aspx here], [http://mises.org/th/chapter7.asp here], etc. Did you do a keyword search of mises.org? Mises did address the topic. But I never spent much time studying it, partly because people hardly ever bring the topic up in debate. [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 18:54, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:::: Nathan, thank you very much! No, I didn't try to find this at mises.org, I don't know why. I am reading this, thank you again! [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 09:56, 1 November 2013 (MSK)
:::: Nathan, I've just read what you suggested. You know, I am afraid, it is not enough for persuading people in Russian Wikipedia that the attempts to replace logic by dialectics in the USSR were connected with the idea of polilogism... Moreover, I faced difficulties in explaining that Marx and Engles were keen of this idea. The counter-evidence was as follows: "since you can't give a quotation where Mises says that what Engels told about dialectics was a result of his polylogism, then you can't mention Engels in this context". I had a hope that maybe somebody else in the Austrian school wrote something on this topic... Do you know? [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 20:13, 1 November 2013 (MSK)

User talk:Eozhik

2013-11-01T05:56:58Z

Eozhik:

User talk:Eozhik

2013-10-31T10:23:41Z

Eozhik: /* Welcome! */

User talk:Eozhik

2013-10-31T10:01:38Z

Eozhik: /* Welcome! */

User talk:Eozhik

2013-10-31T10:00:49Z

Eozhik: /* Welcome! */

User talk:Eozhik

2013-10-31T09:58:43Z

Eozhik:

Talk:Polylogism

2013-10-31T07:20:57Z

Eozhik:

Hello,

Recently I created an artcle "Polylogism" in Russian Wikipedia, and I would like to broaden it by giving some information of how this idea worked in the USSR (perhaps, you know, that there were persecutions on "formal logic" in the USSR), but I understood unexpectedly that I can't find any mentionings of this in the books by Mises. Can anybody help me? I need a reference where Mises or his followers discuss (or mention) this problem.

Thank you in advance. [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 10:35, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:Most notably, Marxian polylogism is discussed in ''[[Human Action]]''. http://mises.org/humanaction/chap3sec2.asp [[User:Nathan Larson|Nathan Larson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Larson|talk]]) 10:55, 31 October 2013 (MSK)

:: Thank you, Nathan for your prompt reply! Yes, I have this book, but it is strange for me that Mises does not mention in this connection the Hegelian dialectics and its role in persecutions of what marxists called "formal" logic. (I hope, you know that in the USSR the usual logic was called "old-fashioned", "metaphysical", and it was difficult to protect it, even mathematical logic was considered as suspicios, "non-proletarian"). Or I missed something? [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 11:15, 31 October 2013 (MSK)
:: Just in case, if you happen to speak Russian, you can take a look at the paper by V.A.Bazhanov, where he describes this: http://iph.ras.ru/uplfile/logic/log12/Li_12_bajanov.pdf [[User:Eozhik|Eozhik]] ([[User talk:Eozhik|talk]]) 11:20, 31 October 2013 (MSK)

Talk:Polylogism

2013-10-31T07:15:39Z

Eozhik:

Talk:Polylogism

2013-10-31T06:35:13Z

Eozhik: Help!